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Thursday, 20 July 2000
Jim From Sask: What Does
F.O.R.C.E.S Stand for?
Warren Klass: Fighting Ordinances
to Restrict and Eliminate Smoking. We are a national group and a
chapter just started in Quebec. (FORCES Canada, Manitoba,
and Italy recently affiliated with The Association for the Respect of
Smokers' Rights, ARSR, based in Québec)
Mark from Mississauga: Will there
be legal action against Allan Rock and the anti-smoking crusaders who
are spreading a palpable hatred towards consumers of a legal product
(tobacco)?
Warren Klass: I wish. I think the tobacco
companies are going to court to fight the latest labelling. And I
believe someone in Ontario has gone to court to fight discrimination.
But really the tobacco companies suit is the main one.
Wm. Robert McDonald: I agree with
you when you say that smoking is still legal in Canada, but I do not
agree with your statement that smoking is not dangerous. How can you
make a statement like that when everyday we hear about more people
losing their lives to lung cancer, throat cancer? What about the
people with breathing disorders that are suffering because of second
hand smoke?
Warren Klass: The second part is a complete
myth. For the first part, I think the numbers are overblown. The
numbers of people dying are just two years below normal expectancy.
Japan, which has the highest level of smokers, has the longest life
expectancy. The same thing in Greece. The idea of second hand smoke is
one of the greatest hoaxes of all time. It's a myth trotted out to
justify a very barbaric agenda.
Carole: Do you believe that
smoking won't hurt you? Do you smoke?
Warren Klass: I
smoke. I'm asthmatic and I'm on a life saving drug because of
(supposedly) smoking related problems.
I've been smoking for about 30 years. I don't know if it is going to
kill me. The first diagnosis said I would be dead by 21. At 38 I was
told I would be dead in a year, but that was 7 years ago. The rhetoric
on this is not based on truth. Reality is very different, I'm living
proof of it. I grew up as an asthmatic in a home with four smokers.
Most of the stuff about smoking is mythology.
Allan: Why should you have the
right to take away someone else's right to breathe clean air?
Warren
Klass: We're not taking away their right. We're just asking for
fairness and accommodation for everyone and some common sense.
Tyler: Are there other freedom
issues that your group is backing?
Warren Klass: We're
not involved in other issues. Our primary focus is smoking, but we
make reference to other issues to show there is a whole agenda at work
here. It's tied into issues of guns, food and other items.
Daniel Gamble: Perhaps it would
be best if the general public were informed a bit more of the
continued frauds perpetuated by our elected officials on the dangers
of second hand smoke. This topic is very much in question right now,
and much data points toward there being no danger at all from ETS.
That is not the issue here , however, it is a question of Rights, is
it not?
Warren Klass: We agree with you. That's our basic
position. We're arguing this on a multitude of bases. If people have
rights they have to be respected and none of this would be going on.
It's the non-smokers groups that say smokers have no rights. There is
no moral, legal or medical justification for any of this. There is no
evidence to justify this. Quite a bit of evidence shows this is
nothing but polemics on behalf of the anti-smoking movement.
Ryan B.: Mr Klass The effects of
second hand smoke are non-refutable. Knowing that, how can you
advocate smokers and their habit infringing on my right to a healthy
environment. In my experience, without the laws in place today, we
could not leave it smokers common sense not to smoke in certain areas.
Warren Klass: We have mountains of evidence showing
second hand smoke is not a problem. It would take all day to list them
all. We have 70 studies by epidemiologists, we have judgments by
courts in the U.S. and elsewhere showing we are right. We say the
evidence about second-hand smoke is refutable. IF it is, then the
smoking issue is one of lifestyle and it is a glorified imposition of
an agenda by people who want to impose their lifestyle on others.
James Wesley: Smoking is a
disgusting habit, however it is the choice of the individual to
consume tobacco products. However, it is NOT the choice of the
Non-Smoker to consume these products (second hand smoke), so why
should they be subjected to it?
Warren Klass: We can argue
that in two ways. We have ventilation standards to improve that.
Non-smokers have an incentive for better ventilation. Human decency
and respect for other people should mean that people realize they
don't have the right to impose their moral agenda on everyone else. I
don't drink or gamble, but I wouldn't impose that on anyone else. This
really comes down to imposing an agenda.
Mark from Mississauga: Since air
pollution is a major factor (recently admitted) in respiratory
diseases, why are there still "acceptable" levels of air
pollution but seemingly no acceptable levels of ETS? How can the
government claim one is dangerous while the other is acceptable and
not raise questions by the general public?
Warren Klass:
That's the way we feel. The whole thing is hypocrisy. These are people
with political agendas. People pushing for punishing of smokers find
it easier than going after big industries. This is a cornerstone of
our argument, you get more pollution from a diesel bus than from 50
lifetimes of second-hand smoke.
James Wesley: Tobacco is a drug.
And although it is legal when people smoke they should have rights,
however restriction too! People who drink are not allowed in to parade
around in public drunk. This protects the general public who are not
drunk. Similarly, the public should place restrictions on smokers to
protect the non-smokers. What makes you think smokers should have
rights?
Warren Klass: What did we do to have our rights
taken away? That is the cornerstone of fascism. People who have an
unpopular habit are having their rights taken away. People with a
habit the state doesn't like have no rights. What would they like us
to do next, wear yellow stars? Fascism is a lot more than just yellow
stars and death camps. We think the government feels it can get away
with it. We hope Ontario and Quebec are paying attention and will
finally send the Liberals packing. Allan Rock may be secure, but there
are lot of smokers in Ontario who are getting turned on to this. We're
not hiding our agenda on this at all.
Jane: Is your group funded by the
tobacco companies? Are you involved with them?
Warren Klass:
No, absolutely not. We don't get a dime from anybody. We are a bunch
of volunteers who got fed up at the same time and got on the Internet
together. We could desperately use their help, but people have this
fantasy about big tobacco to fund every group in this. If you want to
bankrupt big tobacco get them to fund all the groups that have sprung
up that are fighting for their rights. We don't encourage anybody to
smoke, or advocate smoking.
Kathy: Reports show the tobacco
industry has deliberately lied about the effects of their product. How
do you respond to those actions?
Warren Klass: I think
that's been a disingenuous spin. The real liars are the non-smokers.
It's the anti-tobacco groups that have done more lying. People have
known for 400 years that smoking is bad for you. The medical community
has known this for years. It's not a new issue. It's a canard to say
the tobacco companies are the bad guys. It's unbelievable. It's the
people with agendas who are the bad guys.
Karen: Are you working closely
with the restaurant and bar industries?
Warren Klass:
Yes, they have requested our help. The anti-smoking groups in Winnipeg
said big tobacco was behind us. But they called our office and asked
for help. We put out petitions and let them have a voice on our
Internet site. We gave them a voice when the local media shut them
out. I spoke at city hall on their behalf. They came to us and we gave
whatever help we could give.
Greg: Were you surprised when
Winnipeg's city council backed down? Do you expect a ban to be imposed
after the delay?
Warren Klass: Yes, I was surprised, very
surprised that they did it. I hope there is no ban. I certainly hope
not. It was a vicious campaign and the media mostly blacked out our
side of the story. They had bogus questions about the water bill and
said 70 per cent opposed smoking. We didn't think we had a chance, but
we were pleasantly surprised. We thought we would have to go to court
of overturn the bylaw.
Nathan: I don't think anyone is
saying that smokers don't have the right to smoke. Non-smokers just
don't like when they are subjected to breathing second-hand smoke.
Even if it is not harmful, it is disgusting to some people. Would it
alright for people to walk into a restaurant and start spraying Lysol
all over the section they are sitting?
Warren Klass: We
feel ventilation is the answer to most problems in restaurants. If
they can take out poison gas they can take our smoke. It will help
everyone's health by taking out all the toxins. People will be able to
wear perfume. The technology is good and it does exist. Honeywell has
used it to take out poison gas. We feel in our attempt to compromise
that ventilation remains a viable alternative to the punishment agenda
that we have right now. I think the cigarette taxes will cover the
cost of ventilation. I think we need ventilation systems in our
hospitals and schools and restaurants so all people are protected from
legitimate health issues. Smokers are paying more than enough to cover
improved ventilation. Then the harassment and the rest of it ends,
that's what we want. It's a viable alternative to the status quo.
Wanda Hamilton: Warren, even
though the U.S. EPA report was largely rendered null and void by a
U.S. federal court, a few chapters were not addressed by the court.
Two of those were authored by Dr. Fernando Martinez. Were you aware
that he has not apparently reversed his position and now says that
tobacco smoke is NOT involved as a major factor in asthma?
Warren
Klass: Yes, in the 92 page EPA judgment that threw out the claims
about second-hand smoke, among the more controversial decisions was
about children, second-hand smoke and inner-ear infection. The
asthmatic child card. The judge vacated any connection between
second-hand smoke and these issues. The doctor she refers to has
changed his position and now says it's not a problem. That's good
news. I'm just a guy reading the literature, but it's good to see a
doctor agree. I'm delighted.
Daniel Gamble: With regards to
the steps that restaraunts and bars could take to address the ETS
issue, do you feel that this decision should be left to the business
owners, should be legislated, or have smokers compromised enough?
Warren
Klass: I think it should be left to the individual business
owners. Let the market place decide and let businesses decide if they
want certain areas smoke free. We're willing to compromise but the
other side isn't. We're compromising out side at 50 below. We trust
the market a lot more than we trust a bunch of bureaucrats. They have
an agenda to torment people and change their lives.
Tina: How many members does your
group have and who is it working with?
Warren Klass: Our
membership at Forces is about 350,000 hits a month on the Internet. I
don't have exact figures. I don't know where they come from. We get
tons of e-mail from all over Canada. Our international sites draw
similar action. We're a loose coalition of people in the U.S. New
Zealand and Italy. The anti-smoking campaign hasn't affected Europe
and Britain the same way it has in Australia, New Zealand, Canada and
the U.S. That's primarily where our chapters are located and why we're
active. The Australian Supreme Court turfed out a lot of the
anti-smoking laws. The basically said what the U.S. did. That took the
wind out of the anti-smoking side. The anti-smoking groups disbanded.
The president of our Italian branch is a non-smoking lawyer.(he
is in fact, a medical doctor) In Italy they are trying to
bring in anti-smoking, that's why our group has sprung up. We're
growing rapidly. Our site can't handle the traffic we're generating.
Nobody anticipated that we would grow so quickly.
Warren Klass: We have every study
on second-hand smoke on our site. There is an overwhelming amount of
information on the Internet. We're not trying to hide anything. We
don't have anything to hide. We've been amazed at the amount of
traffic this has generated.
Jane: A friend of mine grew up in
a home where every one except herself smoked. She died of lung cancer.
Coincidence?
Warren Klass: Yes, the World Health
Organization found no link between smoking and lung cancer. Nobody has
substantiated it. Go to our evidence site. Your chances of getting
cancer from second hand smoke are the same as becoming a heroin addict
by eating a poppy seed. For example, a nurse in the U.S. sued the
tobacco companies because she had lung cancer, but it came out in
court that the cancer started in her leg. The idea that second-hand
smoke causes cancer is a myth. There are 70 studies that show there is
no effect. I am willing to put our information up and let the
anti-smoking groups put up theirs and let the public decide.
Tick from South MB: Why would
anyone believe anything the EPA has written, when they have been lying
to us, until only recently?
Warren Klass: That's exactly
our point. The judge vacated everything they said about second-hand
smoke. It is a devastating decision. We couldn't agree more.
Moderator: That wraps up our chat
with Warren Klass. Thanks to Warren for his time and thank you for all
your questions. We hope to have a spokesperson from the Non-Smokers
Rights Association take part in a chat soon so we can hear the other
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