Greetings Fellow Planeteers!

[Colin Grainger]

Hi All,

First intro ! I am honoured. I hope many of you do the same so that we can see who's who in the zoo. I am 44, a father, a husband, a son, a sales manager, an ex professional soldier, of average intelligence, a dog owner, a learner golfer and I enjoy movies, comedians and books. Oh, and I smoke. I am just making the transition from cigarettes to cigars, for no good reason that I can think of just at this moment. (I secretly think it is because cigars produce more smoke and I sub-consciously want to annoy those petty minded individuals that want me to stop smoking, whether I want to or not). I live on the North East coast of Soviet Scotland under the Dictatorship of Herr Grupenfuhrer Jack McConnell.

Up until last December I was just doodling along on the path of life, like everyone else, minding my own business, paying my taxes, obeying whatever laws the Scottish Executive churned out because, I am after all, a good, loyal & law abiding citizen. In the main, the laws are sensible, well thought out and protect us. Then, out of the blue, came an edict that we, the good people of Scotland, had somehow "voted overwhelmingly" for a complete indoor smoking ban. Well, this came as a huge surprise to me as I had seen nothing in the press, nothing came through my door advising me of my "support" for such legislation, nothing on TV about it, so you can imagine my surprise.

My surprise turned variously to disgust, horror and disbelief that such legislation could be passed on such flimsy evidence. Since that dark December day I have spent countless hours educating myself on my habit, its effect on me, and more importantly, its effect (if any) on others. I now know a great deal about the "science" surrounding ETS/SHS/passive smoking, and engage with others to learn still more. I have now had letters printed (mostly on-line) in The Times, The Herald, The Telegraph, The Sunday Mail and many other newspapers. I have contacted Peers of the Realm, Members of Parliament, Members of Scottish Parliament, Councillors and anyone else I could find that I thought would listen to reason. Sadly, most of them find it more convenient to hit delete rather than the reply button.

For this, and many other reasons, I believe that FORCES INTERNATIONAL have to provide us with the voice that we are lacking. I was lucky enough to trade a few emails with Gian Turci, who has taught me much about the psychology of the Anti Smoker movement. I have used his advice to my advantage on several occasions.

This is one of those rare times in your life that you will do something really worthwhile. The end game has to be the eradication of anti smokers and their bigoted ways. We have to say no to their nannying interfering ways. We have to wean them off the money they get from Big Tobacco and Big Pharma. We have to reject their junk science. We have to publicise their lies. We have to show the world what they really are: spineless control freaks.

I look forward to meeting you all.

Stay well,

Colin.

[Maryetta]

Welcome Colin - we feel confident we at FORCES can meet the Challenge with the public's approval and help.

Maryetta

[LyndaF]

WHEW..... Well, this site certainly tried its best to keep me out.......but being the stubborn thing that I am, AND with the help and patience of Maryetta, I finally made it!!! Thanks again for all your help Maryetta, I promise, I'm usually NOT that big of a pain in the a**...hehehe

Hi there, Colin, nice to see a familiar face. Did I ever mention my mother was Scottish? She was born in Aberdeen and lived there until her family moved to Manchester in England when she was 13 years old. To this day, she still misses Aberdeen.

I was born in New York City 53 years ago, and now reside in beautiful, sunny, HOT HOT HOT Phoenix, Arizona. I've been smoking since I was 15 years old, and as I told my new doctor here, I'll be quitting when I die....

What's going on these days is frightening at the least, and I see no end in sight either, not just with smoking, but with everything else.

I still want to find me a deserted island to take over, well, me and my love anyway.........hehehehe

[__-Steve-__]

Hi, Colin and welcome to the Tavern.

...the only tavern where smoking is allowed, apart of course from the bar in the house of commons where the bar staff will no doubt gladly suffer the unavoidable deseases caused by the cigar smoke of their glorious leaders who are above and beyond the trivia of the nanny state. A noble cause if ever there were one .

It's interesting to note your use of the term 'Soviet Scotland' and irony does not begin to convey the comparisons of the 20th and 21st centuries.

The former soviet union enjoys much more 'freedom' than it's former western enemies these days and Germany appears to be the only European country resisting the pressure of the World Health Organisation to ban smoking. Our Grand Parents suffered and died against such tyranny for our freedom of choice and now we head towards Public Health dictatorship, identity papers and a federal state of Europe. Even a cursory glance at the statistics of WHO reveals their hypocricy; whilst dictating smoking policy to the world they fail to explain why their figures contradict their opinion. Why do the biggest smoking nations have lower cancer and heart desease rates than the 'lower' smoking nations?

Could it conceivably be that Mediterranean countries or China or Japan have different genetics or diets? Obviously not or the anti-smoke researchers would have taken this into account wouldn't they? And what of the figures for smoking trends? A roadworker is more likely to smoke than an accountant, the roadworker is also more likely to have a poor diet and be exposed to pollution, Shouldn't these confounders be taken into account when a researcher asks a cancer patient how many cigarettes he smoked in 1957? Obviously everything I have been taught was wrong as it seems perfectly acceptable to conclude that if you have cancer and you have ever smoked or been exposed to smoke (which is everyone) smoking was the cause without any doubt, question or possible confounder.

Those former leaders of Germany and the USSR would have been proud of our Governments propaganda machine; an example being the latest 'smoking is bad' TV advert that tells us that a smoker dies from a blood clot every five minutes. Horrific, sensational propaganda that is scientifically useless. After all, I could tell you that a coffee drinker dies of a blood clot every 3 seconds but without real medical evidence, the factoring in of other possible causes and at the very least a comparison of how many non-smokers die from a blood clot every five minutes, manipulation of public opinion is all it is.

The second interesting issue you mention is that you are a law abiding citizen. Here lies the second problem with Government intervention into personal freedoms. It criminalises the population. The Government loves to put normal people in prison for breaking the codes of unwanted nanny laws that challenge freedom of choice, which is why Britain sends to jail more of it's population than any other European nation, Granny's, Parents, Drivers; live your lives as your state dictates or you will be detained.

The smoking ban wouldn't be so bitter if it were in the slightest based on any truth or integrity. If I had submitted conclusions in my Uni exams based on the same logic the anti-smokers use, I would have failed miserably and I'm pretty sure my tutor would have asked if I had been paying any attention at all. If I had reduced confidence intervals, left out undesirable data, all to achieve a result, and then expressed statistically insignificant results as Irrefutable proof I would expect to have been laughed at.

However, for a public presented only with a conclusion it is natural for them to accept that a smokers arteries look like porridge and that a lit cigarette is more harmful than a spent nuclear fuel rod.

I'm happy to be on your side against the anti-smokers Colin, remember though that ideological persecution is an obsessive disorder for which there is no known cure!

[Guest]

Hi there, Colin, nice to see a familiar face. Did I ever mention my mother was Scottish? She was born in Aberdeen and lived there until her family moved to Manchester in England when she was 13 years old. To this day, she still misses Aberdeen.-Lynda.

Hi Lynda (I post as Vlad the Inhaler on the Smoking Cafe site, if you hadnt guessed). Life is full of coincidences. I was born in Manchester and moved to Aberdeen. At 13 I was dodging bombs and bullets in Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) during the civil war. We came back to Manchester when I was 16 and I then dodged the bombs and bullets belonging to the IRA. In 2006 I find myself dodging bombs and bullets belonging to anti smoker jihadis. Is there no peace to be found?

Steve, thank you for your welcome. You will discover for yourself next year how truly awful smoking bans really are. You make some wonderful points and I only wish I could express them as eloquently as you do.

I love the way that the anti's and the government tell us how popular smoking bans are. And how people comply with them. They are so "popular" we need to impose heavy fines on people, provide "Report a Smoker" hotlines, and employ a brigade of enforcement officers to ensure we comply. Its for our own good, you see.

The worm, however, is turning. I am pleased to be a part of a movement that will bring the truth to as many people as possible.

I forgot to mention in my intro that I am spokesman for the Scottish "division" of The Big Debate. If you, or any others want to see what we get up to, please visit us at www.thebigdebate.org

Stay well.

[Guest]

Hi Lynda (I post as Vlad the Inhaler on the Smoking Cafe site, if you hadnt guessed).

Now, Vlad darling.......HOW would I know it was you when you are obviously posting incognito here? hehehehehe Unfortunately I flunked out of mind reading classes in school.......

Now, If I go on over to the Big Debate, am I going to have yet another battle with a site that likes to make joining difficult? hehehehehe

[LyndaF]

I logged in and yet when I replied to Vlad aka Guest, I also came up as guest.

This site just really enjoys giving me a hard time I think........hehehehehe

[Colin Grainger]

Lynda, TBD wont be as "challenging" as this site.

They are only teething problems. we'll soon have all pistons firing, I am sure.

I also posted as myself (Colin) and it popped up as "guest".

And I do like you calling me darling! Keep it going, schweetheart!

Have a bodacious weekend!

Colin/Vlad/Guest.

[LyndaF]

Lynda, TBD wont be as "challenging" as this site.

They are only teething problems. we'll soon have all pistons firing, I am sure.

I also posted as myself (Colin) and it popped up as "guest".

And I do like you calling me darling! Keep it going, schweetheart!

Have a bodacious weekend!

Colin/Vlad/Guest.

Are you telling me that Colin and Vlad are one and the same? It's not nice to try to confuse us "old broads" (and NO you may not ever call me that, only I can.......LOL). I'm quite the witch about who can call me what......... But since you're a nice person and I like you so far, I'll let you get away with the "schweetheart" hehehe

Teething problems eh? Perhaps the site needs a teething ring...ROFLMAO

[Enlightened]

Hello everyone,

I've been looking for a place to hang out, where adherence to common sense and exercising personal responsibility trumps prohibitionary regulations. Since the last holdout on earth that I formerly patronized has now caved in to the demands of political correctness, I decided to limit my socializing to cyberspace for the time being. I look forward to the day when average people can re-establish their social lives within more traditional venues, without fear.

I am in the second half of the potential century of my mortal existence, married and co-parent to two now-adult offspring, one of which is severely disabled. On a conceptual level, I have found that "disability rights" activists embrace the same ideology as do all other advocates of "rights" for any identifiable segment of the population. I am extremely wary of those who purposely or unwittingly confuse rights with privilege of government favour. Being accustomed to bearing heavy responsibility and the inevitable consequences thereof, I consider my most threatening enemy to be government imposition of collective morality. Obviously, I do not equate democracy with rule by the majority. You'll likely notice that I am not enthusiastic about 'party' politics in general.

[__Steve__]

Nice to meet you Enlightened.

I share your disdain for modern politics. I'm certain most of them skipped history during education; the basis of democracy, the magna carta, might be a good place for them to start.

"To any man whom we have deprived or dispossessed of lands, castles, liberties, or rights, without the lawful judgement of his equals, we will at once restore these."

These days, I'm afraid, it seems the only way to get elected is to follow sensational media induced ideals that are often knee jerk reactions to current issues and seldom serve anyone.

I take it, from your name, you are aware of the ETS hoax; it's not surprising to see our leaders jump onto the vote winning bandwagon of political correctness.

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." Winston Churchill

There is a word that has been sadly lacking in the corridors of power for some time now; Integrity !!

[gilster]

Just figured out how to get onto these boards - never received a verify e-mail so just put in the password I submitted - and waalaa...

I'm from Massachusetts - don't want to go into any more detail as anti's can access this forum too and I'm trying to fight something big in my town that will come up and don't need anti's walking in on meetings.

Hopefully this board is alot more friendly - I've been beaten up a bit trying to play with the anti's on the other boards - it's becoming almost fruitless and I am weary also of circular conversations on them. But it's still something I'll probably do- just to try to hone my arguing skills - or lack there of....

I am looking for soundbites that can fight the anti's soundbites, the general public has an attention span of a flea and pages of arguements will not be read.

Hello to all - I recognize alot of names here
Gilster

[Colin Grainger]

Welcome Gil.

Nice to see you here. This board is absolutely wonderful compared to that other one where you & I post. This is an anti-free zone.

I'm pretty new to this and wouldnt mind some show-stopping one-liners as well. I am okay with the science but it is awkward when you only get a few lines to say your piece.

I also argue with the anti's but you are right, it is almost a complete waste of time.

Over the last 9 months or so I have developed the ability to predict with some accuracy the "type" of people anti's are.

Here's what I have learnt:

1. They usually have a dead relative. (Sometimes the death was due to ETS, sometimes due to direct smoking). This death is ALWAYS our fault.

2. They usually dont drink.

3. They usually dont gamble.

4. They usually: hug trees, wear sandals, save whales, and bleat on about the myth that is global warming.

5. They always wear cardigans.

6. They almost always come across as mentally unstable.

7. They are usually the breed that screamed for us to get into Iraq to oust Saddam, and now scream for us to get out and leave "them" to it.

8. They cannot remotely understand the science.

9. They always have asthma or some other allergy which is triggered ONLY by tobacco smoke.

10. They do not understand the concept of ventilation.

12. They do not understand the word compromise.

I could go on and on but I wont. I am sure I am preaching to the choir.

Stay well, I hope we chat on here often.

Colin.

[chuckles]

Too right Colin id change however the sandals bit to sandals with socks!!!! preferabily white socks!!!!

[LyndaF]

Too right Colin id change however the sandals bit to sandals with socks!!!! preferabily white socks!!!!

I have to agree with chuckles on this, Colin....I wear sandals all the time (9 months out of the year) since I live in a climate that allows me to........

I too am actually silly enough to try to argue with anti's, I've reached the point where I realize that I actually prefer banging my head against brick walls as it's less painful and provides more intellectual thoughts............hehehehehe