A S H

[aerospeed]

Have any of you taken a good, close look at the ASH.ORG website? I spent some time there this afternoon and it was pretty sobering.

This one organization has done more damage to our cause than any other I've seen.

I'm stunned. I don't know what else to say right now. Maybe tomorrow.

Jim

[tnsmoker]

No, I haven't. I probably should...as they say, keep your friends close but your enemies closer. I just can't deal with the thought of looking at and reading their sick propaganda. Makes my skin crawl just thinking about it.

[aerospeed]

TN, Sure glad you're here. I need to vent or rant a bit. To write that I'm demoralized is an understatement. ASH has really covered the whole thing...I don't know how we can fight them at this late stage. Maybe if this was 1979 we would have a chance but now, I don't know. I read over their time line article and they have been there, on the front line, right from the beginning. We might as well have been sleeping the whole time for all the resistance we've put up. And the thing is that they have made law by using the courts very cleverly.

I just don't know how the hell we're going to do battle with them in any way that will make a difference in my lifetime.

Sorry for the rant.

Jim

[tnsmoker]

No need to apologize for ranting. We all need to get it out of our systems occasionally. Ranting (getting it out) usually gives me a second wind and renews my energy to keep on keeping on (for things other than the smoking issues).

I've not been involved long enough to make any kind of educated guess if things will turn around in our lifetime. I like to think we'll see it in just a few years, and sometimes I think so. Then the antis will win a smoking ban somewhere or I see calls for bans on other things and I wonder if we (and I mean the little antis who are low on the totem pole and non-smokers as well as smokers) will ever pull out of this hypnotic state where we listen to whatever lies they (the antis who are at the top of the heap and filling their pockets) tell us.

It's an uphill battle and maybe that's why it seems so hard and discouraging. When I hear bad news (another ban) I try to focus on the good news (another ban FAILED) and hope truth will out in the end.

[Jim]

Jim, don't get intimidated by ASH or any other anti organization. They might have the money but we have the truth and we will win with that. The more you learn more about the antis by visiting their websites and meeting with them face-to-face, the less formidable they become and the more ammo you have to defeat them.

When we get our MMP project going, I'm going to try to get an interview with Banzhaf so we can all get to know him better. If it goes as planned, I think you'll enjoy it.

[gilster]

I think NOW is the time to take back rights and blow these Antis away.

The Global Warming "Antis" are getting the pushback from citizens now...Skepticism is now afoot against Manmade global warming- these zealots are the same antis that are against smoking - we can embrace the same mindset and ride the same wave.

"The Great Global Warming Swindle" is one show that millions of people have now seen and have changed [or opened] their minds that all of it IS a Swindle.

More people have seen it on google video and youtube than the mainstream broadcast on Channel 4 UK. Forces media project sent out on these avenues will have a powerful impact.

[aerospeed]

Thanks for the positive words folks...they were *very* helpful.

You know, more and more I believe that FORCES is the only, ah, force, that has a snowball's chance in Hell of stopping this madness...the ASH web site sure is scary. THose people are pros as what they do. They're tough, but so are we.

Best,

Jim

[383rr]

In my opinion, the anti's house of lies is starting to lose some bricks. Some states have cut out their big share of the MSA money (Mississippi did, and so did OheilO).

The ACS attacked Engstrom, and I think that back-fired very badly for them.

Oheilo ACS rep. Tracy Sabettea was caught in a big lie, claiming her life was threatened, and she had to report someone to the state police to be watched. The state police officer said no such request was made.

With all the banning madness going on, people are starting to pay more attention to these issues, as they are starting to affect more, and more people.

And, don't forget all the civil disobedience in Colorado, Hawaii, and yes, even here in OheilO. There are six local bars who stated they'll defy the ban...

We just need to keep chipping away at their house of lies.

[Jim]

The ACS attacked Enstrom, and I think that back-fired very badly for them.

Very important point here! Their attack was out of sheer desperation and therefore a very bad move. This proves what I always say: Sticking the truth in the face of an Anti is like sticking a silver crucifix in the face of a vampire. The results are always the same. They come unglued and act irrationally.

I have known for many years that truth is the most feared weapon that we can use on tyrants. It works every time and it WILL work on the anti-smoking movement.

[aerospeed]

In my opinion, the anti's house of lies is starting to lose some bricks. Some states have cut out their big share of the MSA money (Mississippi did, and so did OheilO).

The ACS attacked Engstrom, and I think that back-fired very badly for them.

Can you point me to more information re this? What backfired?

[383rr]

Heres a link, areospeed:

http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/200 ... tific.html

I don't post at Seigel's blog usually, but there is some good information there sometimes.

This gives the story, and Dr. Seigel's input (I don't always agree), and most importantly, many comments, and further links added by some good folks.

BTW, if FORCES hasn't done so yet, I suggest this piece be put on the front page. The ACS's image grows more tarnished by the day, and deservedly so.

[aerospeed]

Thanks!

[aerospeed]

Dr Siegel certainly is an interesting character. I've read a little about him. Anyone care to fill me in about his agenda? I mean, he was anti tobacco but now he isn't?

Curious, ain't it?

Jim

[Jim]

Jim, here is the link to Enstrom's defense:

http://www.scientificintegrityinstitute ... fense.html

This is a must read for anyone seeking futher understanding on the decline of the "good guy" image of the ACS.

As for Siegal, he's a moderate anti-tobacco propagandist who is smart enough to know that if he doesn't do something about the crazies like the ACS, ANR, ASH, and his former mentor, Stanton Glantz, the whole movement will soon collapse.

[Jim]

383rr, thanks for the heads up on the Siegal article! If you find any more on this issue, like the actual paper that cleared Enstrom by Chancellor Norm Abrams, let us know.