Greetings Fellow Planeteers!

[tnsmoker]

Hopefully this board is alot more friendly - I've been beaten up a bit trying to play with the anti's on the other boards - it's becoming almost fruitless and I am weary also of circular conversations on them. But it's still something I'll probably do- just to try to hone my arguing skills - or lack there of....

Yeah, that anti on the other board where we post is a PITA. I went through a phaze where I tried to argue with him and the other anti, but I finally decided there is no point. It takes up too much energy and time. I'm all for educating antis that are willing to open their minds...but I haven't run across one yet! They are ALL self-righteous, belligerent, and unwilling to learn. And they gloat. I have even stopped reading threads they start and their posts...as much as I can. I DO read replies to their posts--because I usually learn something from the pros--so I usually have to read at least bits of the antis' posts to make sense of the replies.

Anyway, glad you made it to this board!

[gilster]

Thanks for the welcome - Guys

Boy it's hard to keep on this board - must be my computer.
I got in for my first post here - see that I was registered since June ? and couldn't get back in until just now again....oh well

Colin, love your list - how true - how true...

I'm OK with the science too - but it takes too long to get it out to people I'm talking to - I think that's why we all revert to Property Rights so quickly - the general public don't need explainations on that - it's quicker to fall back on to get them to understand a portion of our issue with these bans.

[Colin Grainger]

Hi Gil,

I sometimes have to log in several times to get access, but other than that all is now well with this site and I. My only worry (Maryetta!) is that I will be deleted for not posting regularly enough as I often work away from home in Africa and dont always have access to the innernet.

We tend not to dwell on property rights too much in the UK. I guess your issues have more to do with your Constitution. Here, the sheeple get it badly wrong though when assuming that a Public House is just that. The term really is an old fashioned name for a bar now. What they forget is that the landlord/landlady has the right to eject anyone at anytime, or refuse entry at the get go. This cannot, however, be for discriminatory reasons (age, sex, ethnicity, religion, disability etc). The pub is the Licensee's domain. Anti's, when it suits them, trot out the Public House argument, conveniently forgetting or ignoring the fact that it isnt a public space in the true sense of the phrase.

I dont bother with the spurious stuff anymore. It gets very emotional, perhaps they do it on purpose? But I now focus on the science wherever possible. I have tons of reference material and my more clever posts will see me taking my time, checking on a number or fact, and then posting only after checking content and, (important to me) the correct spelling. I notice with no amazement that some of my best "science only" posts get ignored. They often dont understand, or they dont have the confidence to get into it. Far safer for them to scream about odours. In fact, most of what they do scream about can be fixed in a heartbeat.

The battle continues.....

Stay safe,

Colin.

[77Wildcat]

Hello,

I am Conny and I finally made it to join the forum. And as I can see, I was not the only one, who maybe drove Maryetta nuts, with all the emails because of the “teething” problems. Seems things are improving, but with something new, it takes a bit time to figure things out, how they work and where the weak spots are.

I live in Malta (a tiny Island in Europe) and we have unfortunately already a smoking ban in place since April 2005. As we are on an island, we cannot just cross a border to a “smoking” country, so it is realy miserable, especially in winter. Also there are still a lot of bars which flaut the law, but restaurants are a different story. And I loved and miss now my cigarette after a good meal at the table.

I hope I get a lot of help here to tease or even to beat the Antis.

[admin]

I am glad to see you made it Connie! I was so exasperated as to what the problem was! I still am not sure it is “fixed” – but the complaints have stopped…. So I keep my fingers crossed!

At one time we had almost 150 registered users – but those who never posted were deleted for non activity – so if you know someone who thinks they are on the list now – but aren’t then that is why.

Also I have been deleting posts for links to non related sites, and editing the member who posts as a rank of “Questionable Intent” and if the off topic posts continue, they will be banned. So with that said folks, I am trying! Thank you for your patience with me and my "learning curve"!

Maryetta

[gilster]

Thank you Maryetta - I'm in again too

[MsProgressive]

Another Smoker's Club International forum member here (http://www.smokersclubinc.com)
- who ALSO, (finally), has now gained access to this site! (Whew, sorry, it really is not so "user friendly.") But I AM Glad to be here to greet you all - old friends, and new!

Here in New Jersey, our total ban went into effect on "Good" Friday! It was HURRIED through the state legislature in the last days of our "interim" Governor's tenure. (An UNelected Governor who also happens to be, obviously, "overweight")

Our Restaurant Association was FUMING - because lawmakers were ramming the legislation through during the "high" season of their holiday business - which made it difficult for hospitality business owners to drive to the State capitol and submit comments of protest.

There is no provision, under NJ's state laws, for a "referendum vote" - i.e., a way to bring the issue before the public. So the main "squawk" from restauranteurs was: "You're planning to allow smoking in Atlantic City casinos, but NOT private businesses? How is this equitable?" A group of businessmen filed suit in District Court, attempting to get a "stay" on the ban - unfortunately, it failed.

(Apparently, keeping the proceeds "coming" from the Legislatures' lucrative pension investments in the AC Casinos, was more valuable to preserve than the rights of businessmen who were trying to earn a living!)

I read NJ's proposed Bill - it relied TOTALLY upon the "no ban (business) damage" studies of Stanton Glantz (California) and his VicHealth cohorts in Australia. I asked myself, "What do the temperate climates of California and Australia have in common with the sub-freezing winters of New Jersey?" Answer: (of course) NOTHING! But try to tell the legislature - or even the local press - that. They didn't want to hear it! After all, public officials are elected by "majorities" whereas personal rights are better preserved by the concerns of "minorities."

It seems apparent that the ANTIS got to the state reps before the minority CITIZENS, who were about to be banished from all public venues, could even get a word in edgewise!

I sent lengthy letters to my state reps - revealing background info on the "sources" for those studies which the legislature was given to justify that that NJ's hospitality businesses would "not" suffer loss. (Pointing out the various flaws in how the "studies" were made.) I also sent my reps a copy of the "independent" study which was contracted by the restaurant and tavern association in New York - which showed huge losses over the course of the first 10 months of NY's total ban. The result? MY reps "abstained" on the ban vote!

Small victory, indeed, but I'm thinking, if the public had just been given more time, the outcry would have been greater; and the outcome, might have been different.

But this is how the antis work - in STEALTH. I think we need to start "pre-managing" their lobbying tactics - by providing information to the legislators of the NEXT State to be targeted by these "nannies." The kind of good and "balanced" information offered by this site!

Moreover, I am humbly hoping to offer any help I can to organize and/or fund LEGAL CHALLENGES to the bans now in place. Thirteen U.S. states have now made them law - perhaps we can start pushing back soon, so that "13" becomes their "Waterloo"? I'm ready to join that fight!

Yours in Solidarity!
"MsProgressive"

[chuckles]

Too right MSProgrssive- even better!! Globally!! The antis are a global force!!

[beachsmoker]

Hi All,

I made it here (finally). The bad news is that I will now have to split my time between boards.

Anyway, we are fighting the Cocoa Beach, Florida beach & park smoking ban. We are trying logic which never works.

Our citizens will VOTE on this ban. But, with 75% of the population in this town not impacted by a ban (non-smokers), and a lot of tourists using the beach as an ashtray, we fear it will be enacted without proper consideration!

So, we are in battle and hope to continue using investigative resources to aid our cause. We're already doing public education (given limited funds and short timeline).

Anyway, I am ready for battle.

beachsmoker

[Harlow]

Hi everybody. I finally made it here too and see a lot of names from the Smokers Club Inc. have recently joined.
On Wednesday, September 27th the Madison City Council is holding a public discussion on smoking bans. I will be there and will report back to this site. I hope Alabama will choose to be a free state rather than a smoke-free state. We're already not allowed to smoke anywhere indoors in Huntsville.Wish us luck!

[crazyman]

Hi guys! i just read Colin's list of descriptions for antis. I suggest we add #13 all of the above....I fit a lot of those details but i am by no means an anti other than an anti-anti...I smoke,I had a stroke seven years ago which left me a left hemiplegic. Maryetta suggested i join this forum as I explained to her that i am looking for some leadership and direction to win the war! I have 35 years experience calling for Canadian parliamentary reform. I will enclose one of my latest excursions regarding smoking bylaws where i live..

27/09/06

Hello Dear Queen's Representative:

My name is Brian M. Grummitt. I am a natural born Canadian and I currently live in God's country; picturesque Central Ontario.
A few weeks back, I sent a letter (snail mail) to Her Majesty. In kind, her Private Secretary responded quite quickly.Both letters I have enclosed below for your perusal.
Can you please tell me whether your office has received the Queen's communication? If so, Have you personally had a chance to review the contents?
Most Respectfully,
Brian M. Grummitt.
Central Ontario, Canada.

From a letter to Queen Elizabeth, Buckingham Palace, London
August 14, 2006.
Your Majesty, I am writing your office, quite simply, because I am at a loss for where else to turn
My parents both served England during the Second World War, both of my brothers were born there, and my sister was conceived there.
In the year 1952, my family emigrated to Canada. I was born here in the 1957.
As a Canadian, I have witnessed much corruption in our political system.Recent actions by one party in particular prompted this letter.
This party has on the federal level, embezzled 250 million of taxpayer money in a "sponsorship' scandal". On the provincial level, this same party has introduced anti-smoking legislation which grossly violates my democratic rights by making a complete mockery of the Canadian Constitution
I was wondering if you can tell me how to follow proper protocol in having this political party's licence to operate, revoked. It is my contention, that if a political party cannot follow due democratic process and is guilty of breach of public trust,they should not be allowed to engage in the democratic political forum.
The worst emotion I have ever experienced is the loss of my national pride. I would like to do my part as your loyal servant to stop this catastrophe from happening to our nation's youth .,
Brian M. Grummitt.






BUCKINGHAM PALACE

The Queen has asked the Private Secretary to thank Mr. Grummitt for his letter and to say that it has been passed to the Governor General of Canada so that this approach to her Majesty may be known and consideration given to the points raised in the letter.
12th September, 2006.

[Harlow]

Wonderful letter to HRH, crazyman. I too was born in Canada and have totally lost my national pride. I am so disgusted with Canada that I rarely admit to being born there.
As far as the City Council meeting in Madison, AL which is supposed to be a public hearing on smoking bans.....well there was a misprint(?) as to the proper date. It was not on Sept. 27 and is now sceduled for October 4th. I will attend and speak, if allowed (!), and report back.

[ILss]

Hi everyone! It's good to see so many good people from Smokers Club on here. I only hope my contributions to this site will be as worthy and insightful as all of yours.

I am an Ohioan, born and raised. As you all know, my state passed a heavy handed indoor smoking ban in November. Due to the anti's short sightedness, it cannot be enforced until our health department can write the rules for its usage. Many establishments have buckled under the pressure and have gone non smoking, but there are also many places that are bucking the system and are allowing smoking until they are forced to stop in June. My hope is that the ban can be modified to exclude these establishments so that Ohio doesn't lose all their mom and pop places due to ban damage. I know that may be a pipe dream, because once a ban is in place, it's harder to rescind. I look forward to the day where things can go somewhat back to normal again and where I never have to look over my shoulder to enjoy my smokes to see who is watching.